Episode 61

November 24, 2023


Rebirth | Ajahn Brahm

Rebirth | Ajahn Brahm
Ajahn Brahm Podcast
Rebirth | Ajahn Brahm

Nov 24 2023 | 00:59:21


Show Notes

Ajahn Brahm talks about how out-of-body experiences and near-death experiences, as well as experiences in deep meditation provide the proof that rebirth is real, and that it has been suppressed in Western culture for many centuries. He goes on to talk about how understanding that we live many lives is very useful including how it can help us to understand our own character formation and how deep seated desires can carry across from previous lives. It can also give us an appreciation of the workings of karma (action and result) and how it works in our lives and the lives of others.

This dhamma talk was originally recorded using a low quality MP3 to save on file size (because internet connections were slow back then – remember dialup?) on 5th December 2003. It has now been remastered and published by the Everyday Dhamma Network, and will be of interest to his many fans.

These talks by Ajahn Brahm have been recorded and made available for free distribution by the Buddhist Society of Western Australia under the Creative Commons licence. You can support the Buddhist Society of Western Australia by pledging your support via their Patreon page.


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Episode Transcript

REBIRTH by AJAHN BRAHM Okay, very good. Once again, I have her request for the talk this evening, always very willing to field request was a special request. So I'm fitting it in this week. It's an old Buddhist concept. But I'm going to keep plugging away at this concept in different ways. Every time is the concept of rebirth, a very fundamental teaching of the Buddhist religion. And not only is it a fundamental teaching, it's a very useful teaching, I keep on trying to explain, encourage, elucidate the teachings of rebirth, because it effects you, when you put your life in the big picture of not just one life for many lives, then you can have some idea of where you've come from, and you've got some idea where you're going to, and it just makes a whole journey. We call this life a bit more interesting. It puts things in perspective. And it's fascinating, the whole history of the idea of rebirth, all the Greek philosophers, they were all into rebirth without an exception, are those Socrates, Plato, Heraclitus, Pythagoras, they're all into rebirth, there was actually part of Western culture. People in the West say that their culture originated from Greece. And that's where rebirth was very, very strong. It was only about I think, the third or fourth century in the Council of Nicaea, where it was voted down as not being right by the Christian authorities at the time. And it's always tended to disappear from Western culture, but always survived in Eastern culture. And now it's coming back again into Western culture, little by little, as the evidence mounts that yes, so are people who can remember their past lives and I can be checked, and it's right, that's true. If one person can remember their past lives, and it's true. And of course, it makes it very, very easy to infer that if one person has been reborn, then why not everybody? In fact, it seems quite silly to me that we've only get reborn once into this world and we die. It doesn't really make sense at all. If we're born once, why not twice, not three times, why not many times. And indeed, when one looks at life or looks at nature, nature is always working in cycles. Whether it's the, you know, the planets going around the sun, the sun going around the solar system, whether it's the cycles of nature of now, her days and nights, seasons, everything goes round and round. Where we actually understand that there's no reason why our life can go round and round, from life to death, and other birth and other life again, and again. And again. This seems much fairer, and more sensible, especially that sometimes when we as it were, pick the short straw and only have a short life, and other people have a long life, it seems very unfair for some people to get the short straw, the thin end of the day or the the poor end of the deal on how do you have a short time. And also, there's so much to learn so much to experience in this world. 5060 7080 years is is not enough. Everything goes round in cycles, even soap operas get the reruns, so why can't we? So when we think of it that way, it sort of makes much more sense. But I've given before like evidence for rebirth, if you want to find out the evidence for rebirth, the scientific evidence for rebirth, and there is lots of it can always go into the library or going on the internet and put that type in Professor Ian Stevenson, who did heaps of research, not just by himself, but with other accredited researchers. And he wrote many books, one of his books was written as a visiting fellow of modeling College in Oxford. I remember that so he wasn't some sort of weirdo or not sort of sort of like New Age fanatic. He was actually accepted in academia as a bonafide the professor. But one of the strange things and life is always strange. It's always weird. One of the strange things was, his life's work was sponsored. It was sponsored by an American corporation, whose name you all know. He was sponsored by Xerox. The company who specializes in photocopying decided to sponsor A research into photocopying human lives, God incarnation. Fascinating but nevertheless, that that research was done. And that was CERT is amazing to read just all the evidence, which he collected over the years. So anyone who says it's not scientific, you should ask them. Have you read the proofs yet? And also, I would say no, no, no, because I never even think there are such proofs. So imagine what it's like if you could accept that, and believe that and understand it, because it is true. When you die, and that will happen to you, you will find a very strange experience. And the strangest part of the experience of dying is how normal it feels, it's not strange at all, is a continuity of the conscious process at the time of death. This is if your body dies, not as if it is like this, your body dies, but your mind continues. Which is why it is that sometimes people die temporarily. And they come back again afterwards to tell the tale of what it's like to die. These are called out of body experiences. And incredible how many people have these, you don't have to be a Buddhist to have an out of body experience. Christians, Muslims, atheists, when a person physically dies, they go out of their body. A more scientific evidence there was in Lancet, the Journal of the British Medical Association, the most Stiff Upper lipped organization probably in this planet. And they it is mid December. So it's a printed published some research done by these Dutch doctors who were investigating this phenomena of out of body experiences in their hospital. And one of the things they found, first of all, they said, Yes, it happens. It works. There is such a thing, as are the body experiences, they actually titled the paper, I think consciousness survives death. Because they found the only time this happens. This is what they correlated. They found the only time it happens is when a person is medically dead. We're not any, the heart is not beating. But the brain is inactive, your brain dead. That's when you felt out of your body. So anyone who says that? No, this out of the body experiences or some sort of stimulation of part of the brain was completely disproven by that research. It was discounted as impossible. Because we're the instruments on those bodies, on the operating table in hospitals, there was no brain activity whatsoever at all, of a brain dead. But they were still very much alert. That's what we mean by being dead, your heart is not beating, your brain ain't working for something else is working. As what we call the mind, that's what happens when you die. Only real death is it just carries on, you don't get revived again, you don't sort of come back after a very short time. And so you go off to a new body to a new place, different time, different place, a different body. But people have those out of the body experiences, at least they know what happens at death. Those of you haven't had out of the body experiences you can have in meditation experiences instead. Which is another way of finding out what happens when a person dies. The meditation which we did earlier, was just scratching the surface of what's possible to do when you really go inside. And many of you who've been on my retreats, my meditation retreats, especially the long ones have heard me describe now how you can get into very, very deep states of meditation and what that feels like. What happens just in brief, going in to the breath, until the breath fills your whole mind. Until this, the breath is with you effortlessly and in a breath as it were starts to grow it becomes what we call the beautiful breath becomes very peaceful, very happy. You're watching it without any effort whatsoever. And the breath disappears and its place you see this beautiful light, we call it the numerator. In meditation when this happens, you cannot imagine it you cannot make it happen. It happens according to nature when the causes of imposition. And this beautiful light appears in the mind. It always is accompanied by great feelings of energy and bliss and happiness. And if you know your meditation, you can really let go, you can actually go deep into that light and go into the jhana experiences. Now that's what happens in meditation. And he knows Donek experiences, very often you're not breathing. My teacher Ajahn Shah had his experiences when he was very sick, he could not speak he was paralyzed for many years. And this occasion when some of our monks were looking after him, and while they're looking after him one evening, he stopped breathing. wasn't breathing at all. Now at that particular time, because he was a famous monk, who was a King of Thailand was paying for a nurse to give him 24 hours attention, eight hour shifts. The nurse was supplied by the local hospital, but paid for by the palace, as long as as well as a male nurse was 33 or four months doing services for the teacher that particular evening at Yamcha. Stop breathing. And the nurse panicked. He wanted to try and get a job wheezing again, the monk said, No, leave him alone. He does this all the time, not all the time, but quite regularly. He's just going to deep meditation. But imagine that was you? Would you believe that? This nurse didn't. According to the story, he wasn't concerned so much about Ajahn child dying, he knew you'd have to die Sunday. He didn't want agian Shah to die on his shift. So because of that, he wanted to try and revive him and the other man said no, leave him alone. I can't leave him alone. He's gonna die, is it? No, he's not. He's in deep meditation, they can't will compromise. The doctor, or the nurse rather took blood samples every few minutes, just to make sure that the blood was oxygenated. Because as long as it's oxygen in the blood, then the brain is getting enough fuel. And therefore there's no danger to life is no threat. And even though it didn't, I wasn't breathing, breathe, not beating for quite a few hours. The oxygen level in the blood always remained the same. Into interesting experiment done on someone in deep meditation. And after a while he has come out of meditation side of breathing again. This is what happens. It's like a temporary death. Now the other story, I'd like to tell about one of the people who comes here, I can't see him this evening. There's a great story. One of my favorites. You've heard it before. This is Adam Brahms old favorites. He was a meditator in Perth, he was only meditating usually for half an hour at a time. This time he was at home in his bedroom. And he really got into deep meditation so deep that after a while. After a while his wife came into the bedroom to check on him. What he what he was doing. When she saw him there. He was so still not moving. She had a closer look. She couldn't see him breathing at all. Now what would you do? If that was your husband? What she did was ring 000 to get the ambulance and the ambulance came at top speed with the sirens going and your meditation. Are you disturbed by the sound of the traffic? Imagine by the sound of an ambulance putting up in front of your house. The medics came, felt his pulse, there was no pulse. So straightaway, they put him in the stretcher, put him in the back of the ambulance. And with a sirens blaring at top speed. They spared him to tardy gardeners where they put him in the emergency room. There they put on the AECT which measures your heartbeat. You seen that probably in the movies, apparently is a TV show called er. This was a real thing. Because when they put the ECG on the screen, showed a flat line. Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding emergency heart failure. Ding ding ding. I don't know if that's what it does. But that's what I imagined it because I've never seen that movie. Heartfelt his heart wasn't beating. It showed it on the screen. And it's plotting the EEG to see if there's any brain activity. Again, another straight line. Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding the emergency Brian death. His brain wasn't working. Neither was his heart. It was proven on the machines. And so what they did with him, they put on the electric pads to put electric shocks was body to try and get him going again many many times. Apparently according to his wife. They tried to shock him back into life again. Nothing worked. Nothing worked at all until he decided to come out of his meditation. The true story. He came out of his meditation sort of bent out went away was how did he get the hospital, he went to meditation and his his bedroom. You mentioned that was your you meditated here on a Friday evening, and you woke up from your meditation was an atom bomb ringing the bell, it was the ding, ding, ding, you're not supposed to be breathing, but nothing wrong with him at all. absolutely healthy. And he said, however, this was the funny part of the story. When he told me this, I can hardly keep myself from laughing. He said the worst part of the whole experience all the time, he was just blissed out, fully aware, all the time, but not of his body. Aware elsewhere. He said the worst part of the whole experience was when he was going home. Because he got such a scolding from his wife, all she really needed was Don't ever do that, again. You're really worried him worried her. So this is just an example of what happens when you're going into deep meditation is like learning what happens when you die. The important thing is, even though the brain is not working, even though the heart is not beating, the conscious process still carries on. That's the most important point of that story. Why keep telling it? Consciousness survives the death of the body. So when you die, as what happened to you, the brain won't work, the heart will stop. People may be trying to do all sorts of things, and you won't be aware of it at all. But you will be aware of something else. Sometimes people they float out of the body can see what's going on. One of the people I met there was telling me these stories are great stories. He was Yugoslav. My man has a boy has something wrong with him, went into hospital, they gave him an operation. And he died on the table and went floating up above his body. There's only about a six or seven year old boy at the time. This must be about 40 or 50 years ago in Yugoslavia during the time when it was communist under Tito. And as he was floating up, he said he knew even though it's only a seven year old boy with no scientific knowledge at all he knew intuitively, the doctors, the surgeons were looking in the wrong place. He knew where the problem was in his body, even though it's floating up above it. And so he said he just willed that the doctor would look where the problem was. And as soon as that thought arose in his, in his mind, as soon as he thought that one of the doctors turned around, looked at the spot said, Hey, here's the problem. And so they fixed him up. And he survived, he came back into his body again, and carried on with his life. He said From that time on, he could always leave his body at will. Any time he could float out of his body. And he said, ever since he was in prison, it was no problem at all. He could leave whenever he wanted, and they can stop him. If you want to watch a movie, he just thought of his body and go watch one. Nice trick, isn't it. But anyhow, what it was actually showing us this is what happens when a person dies. Going out of the body and actually being out. Many people have had that experience or have none of others had that experience of actually seeing your body down there. That was one of the monks one so I'll tell you who he is. But he's the famous Abba is been here. He was once his meditating. And he got into some deep meditation. next thing he knew he was up on a tree looking down at himself walking meditation, said it just scared the life out of him. Almost. But it was really just a meditation experience separating the mind and the body. And this is what happens when a person dies. They see this I know that when I was a school teacher, one of my kids in the class told me he had a motorbike accident. next thing he knew he was floating up in the air and he looked down upon this mangled body. And the first thing was a sharp eye that's me. Down there, he was watching himself. Fortunately, the injuries weren't that bad and he came back again. Well, that story of the the federal MP Graham Edwards in Vietnam, he stood on a landmine and blew his legs off. Next thing he knew after the explosion floating up above the paddy fields of Vietnam without a care in the world until he remembered his young wife and child back in Perth. That put him back into the body. Soon as he came back into the body, huge lot of pain and then was unconscious. Next thing in you woke waking up in a field hospital. Many people have those experiences. They've been recalled Got it. And there's not by sort of crazy people, not by people on drugs, all types, children who, who know no better haven't got a philosophy or religion. This is what happens to many people, not every person, but many people. So this is what happens when a person dies. There's still there afterwards. Understanding that this life goes on. Obviously what happens after that when you're sort of you're dead and you're floating around, you then go to a new me birth, another place another life. And in Buddhism, we have this whole series of hell realms, Heaven realms, animal realms, human realms, and don't think that human beings are somehow superior to animals. Some animals are more intelligent than humans. Are these animals don't go around drinking alcohol or Christmas. So be careful out of the bottle. It's we used to say in Thailand, there's not only when a person dies that sometimes they can become ghosts. We always used to say entire their most dangerous ghosts in Thailand when I was a young monk. And now these ghosts have come to Perth. They're called the bottle ghost. The most dangerous ghost of all, is called a bottle ghost it kills many people every year. It invades their mind and made some stupid it makes them so takes over their mind. So it will be okay case of possession. Have you ever seen anyone possessed by a ghost? I see many people possessed by the bottle ghost. I think you've all figured it out. Now it lives in the bottles of whiskey and bottles of alcohol. You open. You open up the lid, and you drink too much of that stuff when you get possessed that kills many people. So be careful of the ghost who lives in the bottle as well we call it spirits, isn't it? The bottle ghost. So anyhow. This is what happens when a person dies and and when they die, you actually go off to other realms, there are ghost realms. There are Angel realms, heavenly realms. All traditions have their spirits, heavenly spirits. And Amazing how similar they are Buddhist traditions. I was just talking to them yesterday about the Jewish tradition, or the different levels of heaven in the Kabbalah. In a couple of the Jewish traditions believe in rebirth. I was got one of the rabbis into trouble because one of my friends rabbi was Rabbi, Moshe Bernstein, he came to our waist X ceremony last year, because he has to bring his key was to be the chaplain or the spiritual director at Carmel school, and used to come to our monastery every year sometimes used to go out to his school talk about Buddhism. And he was such a really great guide. He said, You know, we all believe in rebirth, reincarnation, just like you Buddhists do. I was really surprised. I never thought that Jewish tradition believed in rebirth. Then other another time, I just given a talk at the hospice in Shenton park with a another Jewish rabbi and I said is really good that you Jewish faith believes in rebirth. What do you mean? And said Oh, no rabbi Bernstein just told me that Oh, him. obviously quite a bit of trouble. But some Jewish tradition believe in rebirth, even some of the Muslim tradition that Druze who live in Nam is in Lebanon, I think they're all into rebirth as well. So it's interesting. This is actually what happened we go from realm to realm from life to life, to a story about this monkey, who many of the monkeys in Thailand were was actually not treated very well at all, I suppose to be put his country but I don't know why they don't treat animals very well. But very often, if they find an animal has been mistreated, to give it some sort of sanctuary, they take it to monasteries, and leave it in the monastery. So in this particular case, is a monkey had been mistreated. And so they, they took it to a monastery is one of the forest monastery, one of the monks from Thailand who comes here, every now and again that at this monastery, this monkey stay in the monastery and is a very intelligent monkey. And after a while, he actually identified with with a monk so that was his mates that was his group of group of people. So when it came to tea time, they had to give the monkey a cup of tea as well. So be sitting there with a mouse or have their cup of tea and they were monkey would have his cup of tea as well. They'd have to get one otherwise he didn't know where to play out. And he was very protective of the head monk. Because what happens sometimes some people will be cheeky to the monks that you know some of you are sometimes aren't you? But this monkey he would actually To find out who the cheeky ones were, and he would go to one person in the line. And it allowed them to pet him because of a funny little monkey, and they'd pet him and stroke him was very nice. And then he go to the next person, the next person. And when you get to the cheeky one, he bites him his car back, so just listen. But apparently, is the eventually, the monkey was so protective. He'd actually any noisy vehicles outside the monastery to try and keep it quiet, he'd actually chased try and chase him away. And one day, he actually got killed by one of the trucks. But this is a true story. That monk was a very, very good meditator actually saw. So the stream of consciousness leave the monkey go into the village where there was one of the villagers was pregnant. And so, you know, through his meditation saw the monkey enter the mother's womb. And he told he shouldn't have done this, he told the other monks about this. And after about another seven or eight months, when the lady gave birth to a little boy, that boy was exceptionally hairy. It sure is a little I don't know what it's gonna be like, because it's the local village and all the marks now this day, many of the people that say, we know who you're with your previous year, that monkey is the state of artistry. And it's true. It's actually the transition from the animal realm to the human realm is not that hard, especially that the higher animals now the cats or dogs in elephants, the the cows. It was actually I was looking at one newspaper about people who saw seen animals cry. I told the story before it's a long story. It's not really that time now about the cow which cried in a prison when he's about to be killed. People have seen elephants cry. Even sort of, I'm not sure cats or dogs exhibit human emotions. And I think many of you who've had cats and dogs know that they are not that far from the human realm. And they can get reborn one to the other. So people who say how can I be rebirth because it's more human beings alive today and and Potter's ever died, where they've all come from. And of course, you know that there's many human beings alive today. But the number of animals, especially the higher animals is really dropped quite considerably. Many of the animals to be now we born as human beings, that explains much about certain sections of society. So this rebirth actually happens. First of all, if you're going into deep meditation, you can actually just see what happens is what I was gonna say what happens when a person floats out of their body? Those of you who have heard those stories, they go out the part of the sea, what's going on? And then they go out off to the light. Do you ever heard that before they are floating into the light in meditation that's called that limiter, which are likely to see in the mind, you know what that light actually is? That is, how one perceives this thing we call the mind in Buddhism, the six senses always has been always will be six senses. I don't know why it was in no Western psychology or Western culture when he got five. Asian culture is one ahead of the West, they've got an extra sense to, they're more sensible. We've lost some sense in the West in more ways than one. And what sense we've lost his a sense of mind. Even in science, I was a theoretical physicist. When I started discovering quantum science, quantum physics. One of the wonderful things which came out of that What inspired me was hard physics, basically, maths proved that you have to have an observer that you can't just have like, snow things out there. Without consciousness. It was the first time in hard physics that consciousness came into the equation had to there's no way out of that. Don't really shock a lot of physics physicist. It could not be objective anymore. Because the observer was fundamental to what goes on out there. It was fundamental. So consciousness is a sense, which is apart from seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching. When those five senses as external senses stop or you can't See anymore. When he can't hear anymore when he can't smell, you can't taste when he can't feel your body. When those five senses are gone, your body dies. That's what they're all about. They're all connected with a body. That's what the body is. The body is a vehicle for seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, experiencing the world who those senses. When those turn off, the body dies, either temporarily or permanently. And what you're left with is that last sense, the sixth sense the mind. And that's what you experience is that beautiful light. That's what I've written in my books as a reflection of the mind. That's why when you get into that state of meditating got to be very careful. Because sometimes when they see this nimitta, this light which comes up in the mind, sometimes it's a bit dirty. Sometimes it's not all that pure. And you know why? What you've been doing. That's where you're honest, is because you're seeing yourself, not what you want to say, not who you expect yourself to be. But what you've actually been doing, as a pure person will see a beautiful light. A person who's been heedless, selfish, cruel, will see not very nice light at all. That's looking at themselves, that's the mind as that the inner thing inside of you, which keeps going on from life to life, the flow the stream of consciousness, where the put his head. Now, anyone understand what that is when understand how we both happens, when understand what happens. And that, why you go to this room, or why you go to that room after you die. The reason why you get reborn as two reasons, two causes for rebirth. One is your desire, your aspiration where you want to go. And second is, you know, you're aware with all you know, the it's like, I give always a simile of like a person who goes to the airport, they want to go to Paris, say if you're going to get to Paris, first of all, you have to want to go there. And number two, you need the fare. You need the money, you need the ticket, and the visa and everything else. Otherwise you never get even if you really really want to go. You need to wear with all the desire the wear with all the desire is no you're craving you're wanting the wherewithal is your karma. So what the Buddha said, technically, for those of you who knows, deeper meditation, this is what dependent origination is all about patita Samuel powder, he says how we both happens to craving, and through karma. That's where you get reborn. So first of all, you want to go somewhere, you want to get reborn somewhere, and you got the karmic causes to get there. But it's amazing that sometimes people even though they could get reborn in wonderful places, they know they've got the wherewithal but they don't want to and they get sort of settle for, for terrible places. I remember being a young man in London, and you go out for the night go out for no Saturday evening or Friday. In those days, there wasn't a Buddhist center, where I could go to on a Friday night say go down the pub with your mates. But everybody knew there were some pubs in London, where there'd always be a fight every night, every Friday night. And sometimes you just have a drink with your friends and have a good time. I couldn't figure out why is it that some people would actually go to those violent pubs? Which still I can understand it was stupid to me, but they'd want to go there. It is like why does some people want to get reborn in bad places? Because they want to stupidity. So some of our wanting our desires are based on on delusion, stupidity. We think it's wonderful. We think it's nice. You know, that lovely story or that famous story or the the two monks, Pilate said us again because I love the story. Two monks after they died, one got reborn in the heaven realm. The other one got reborn as a worm and a pile of dung is a great story. A worm and a pile of dung. Now they were mates and dislike in the Australian traditional mates. It's your never abandon your mate. So the heavenly beings when he got reborn in heaven, thought, where's my mate? I can't sort of abandoned my mate. He looked around heaven couldn't find his mate anywhere use his psychic powers to search the human realms couldn't find his mate there either. Oh my goodness. Surely it hasn't been reborn in the animal. Well, I looked all around the animal world couldn't find his mate there. Surely not the creepy crawlies. Oh my goodness, he found him. He found his best mate when I met monks together. The previous law because of some bad karma, he'd been reborn as a worm in a pile of stinking done. I said, I can't allow that. So he went in front of that pile of dung He manifested. And he told his mate said, friend, we were monks in our life before we were best friends. Now, because of some unfortunate calm, you've been reborn in a stinking part of dawn, I've been reborn in the heaven realm Come with me. A little worm came out and said, before I go, I want to ask one question. asked, is it up in heaven? Is there any dung? And heavenly being said, No, there's no dangling that I'm not going to set the worm. Nice. Because welds down worms, they'd like dung. And for them, if this place has got no doubt, is that worth going? Psycho person goes out at night. He's got no alcohol, it's not worth going. So that dog, isn't it. So the heavenly beings tried to explain what it was like, in the heavenly realms to so beautiful. So wonderful music, great food. So peaceful, so lovely. Yes, I know. But there's no Dang, I don't want to go there. So no matter what the heavenly being said, the worm just wouldn't go. So there are times when you have to sort of take matters into your own hands. And this was a time when the angel had to take the worm into his own hands. He tried to grab the worm, because he thought if I could only take the worm, so we can actually see what happened was like, it's just like, sometimes you have your kids or your friends. You want to drag them to the Buddhist center so they can actually see what it's like they're going to see they would enjoy it. But the worm did want to go. And so as soon as his heavenly being could catch hold of the worm, or the worm was struggle, and shout, Hey, leave me alone. Leave me alone. I don't. And because he was covered with Dinah, we're done. It's like it's really sort of slippery, slimy stuff. So because he was really sort of greasy, he could escape and as soon as he escaped from the heavenly beings grip, he just wiggled right to the middle of the dunk. But if you're a good mate, you don't give up easy. So the heavenly Angel held his nose, put his hand in the middle of the duct, and searched all about in the part of Donald for his might, you found him again, put him out, Hey, leave me alone. And a little worm record again, an escape every time, he almost got him out of the part of dung, but the worm really didn't want to go. So it always go back into the pot of dung. In the end, the angel had to leave his old mate a pile of dung. And he had to go to heaven. And the worm stayed in a pile of dung. When the Buddha told that story, as I tell that story, for those who've been coming for many years, I've been trying very hard to pull you out of your part of dung. You get your hair on a Friday, and then you go right back into it afterwards. You don't want to go leave me alone. Why is it because we like our part of Dang, don't we? This nice, we don't realize it's done. It's called attachment. Because the stupidity that's what happens when people when they want to get reborn. If they might die, they get go reborn in a part of dying, you can't stop them. So this is what happens with rebirth, you be very careful, be wise, be smart and know what dung is. And what happened is, what real happiness is and what suffering is what peace is. And what sort of irritation is, know what real happiness is, then you know, where you want to go and have the good calm you can get there. So when you actually when you die, very often, it's what you've been inclined to all your life, what you really think is happiness, what you want to be reborn as if you've got the good karma. That's where you'll go afterwards. So where do you want to be reborn in your next life? Many when I was young and tired, and I said, Oh, we want to be reborn in the West, I said that'd be stupid, be reborn in the West as a terrible place to be reborn. So it's nice and rich dad won't be reborn in a part of them called wealth. Stupid, but this is actually where do you want to be reborn? Is that really heaven? Or is it a part of this is actually one of the problems. So also the Buddha actually said about like rebirth now he would go on and on not to actually learn. It's like going back to school again and again. Again, it's only when we finish school. We don't need to be reborn anymore. We have to learn as what this whole world is about. That's what life is about learning. Are you wise Yeah, you finished it. You already know who you are and how this life works. If you don't have to come back again. So this Buddhist Society of Western Australia gives crash courses in wisdom. Three, how to get out of samsara to finish school in this lifetime. So you don't need to keep coming back. Because otherwise even if you come back to the Schumann Well, think about it. nappies again. Think about it. I know that he said he's posed no school, he's here have finished a te. Imagine have to do it all over again, another 12 years. Oh, my goodness. All of those of you have retired and have to go back to work again. All of those who think you've got rid of your kids. Here, they come back again. Another time? Oh, my goodness. Do you really want that? If you say, Oh, yes, I do. Imagine having another little baby. And as you would see, attached, you're part of that. So this is actually what happens to us. But the Buddha said about not just the the, the craving, but also the karma, the why there were some lessons we still need to learn. And sometimes that we have to keep coming back, even to places we don't want to be the why the Buddha actually said that sometimes if you are stingy. If you are not generous, we don't give donations. And this is a good point to point out the Bangladesh orphanage, sort of where every Christmas time we do a collection for this poor orphans in Bangladesh, Buddha's orphans in a Muslim country, third world, they really get the bottom end of, of everything. So we actually support them here for Christmas. If you're generous, they say you're going to be rich in your next lifetime, it seems quite fair, it's just isn't it? It sounds right. If you're generous, then you're going to be rich, as if, if you know what to do with money, then actually life gives you more. And what to do with money isn't enjoy some for yourself, but use it to help others as well as the best use of this resource called money. If you're stingy, you don't know what to do with your money. You keep it all in the bank and you count it every week, see how much you've got. You plan for your retirement. And when you die, you got all this money left in the bank, which all goes to your kids. So the government, what a waste of time. So be generous, if you're stingy, you get reborn as being poor. Because you were given money, you didn't know how to make use of it. So now you have to know what it's like to do without how better to know what generosity means, than to be on the receiving end, to be poor. To not have any money to be hungry. Anyone who's really ever been hungry, would never pass by someone else who needs something to eat. When you know what it's like personally. That's why sometimes we need to learn through being poor to being hungry. So we're never ungenerous ever again, I say that, if you're an angry person, if you're an angry person, in your next life, you will be ugly. So all you women who argue with your husbands and get angry at them, be careful. You're not going to be able to get a husband next time you're gonna be so ugly. And the same goes for you bet as well. If you get really angry, you could have it so ugly that no women in the right mind will come near you. And it seems fair, doesn't it? If we don't know how to live with another person. Then we repel we repel other people. But if you're kind, if you're forgiving. If you're forbearing then you become a beautiful person. That's where they say the beauty comes from all the beauty beautiful people. But people even if they were told off, they never get angry back. That seems fair. If they got a beautiful heart forbearing heart forgiving heart. They deserve to be beautiful. Beautiful hearts need to be beautiful people who say if you're envious, you will never get anywhere in the world. But if you set up by other success You'll be always influential. I don't know how that works with politicians. But maybe it was because of their last life. And so these actually what happens, why people are reborn. If you're negative, depressed, pressed against the world and world you get reborn, you get reborn in a negative realm. That's why the, the understanding the law of karma and how we birth happens, there's never any reason now to say take your own life and because of depression, imagine what would happen if you saw that that was a way out. After you kill your body, your mind is still there. If you were depressed before, you'll be even more depressed afterwards. Can't do anything right? Kind of a kill yourself. And I think it's not just a job because I think if people would take on board, rebirth many lives is killing the body is no solution. Because the mind continues and depression. Negativity is in the mind. It's not in the body. Now the body doesn't feel depressed, it's a mind, the inner being feels depressed, negative, upset, frustrated, it carries on after you die. That's why Suicide is not really an option. That happens to many people, especially young people, because they have got a feeling about many lives. They one of the reasons why it's not so popular or not so common in Asian countries, I think is because of the idea of rebirth. That's maybe one of the reasons. So this is what happens. But if a person has committed suicide, I want to so try and get them to forgive themselves to get rid of the Depression. The body being killed is not the point is the mind always concerned about someone or persons that ghost they then go out afterwards, it's a mind which is a problem. They live or they die. That's not so much of the problem is the mind. There's many more important things in life and death is like how you live and how you die is most important in Buddhism, not the fact you are alive or you die. It's the how the quality, the karma, what you're doing, what are you making of your life. So understanding like rebirth in this sense, there's so much evidence and I really, almost I call it a mission, to actually to try and promote the idea of rebirth, I think we have a much better society. A much more Kinder, caring society. Once more people start to go back to the old ways. old ways of European ways we ever present ways of Asian ways of taking on board. This is not your your first life, it won't be your last one. You haven't come from just nowhere. You've come with a past. You come with your history, your karmic karma. And you go with your karma as well. When you say you don't take your wealth with you true, you take your karma with you. Wherever you go. You are heirs to your karma born of your karma, said the Buddha. This is actually the truth of things. And I think we'd have a much more compassionate society, and much more understanding society, a much wiser Society, who won't worry so much when young people die if they know that they're gonna have nothing life afterwards another chance, we won't be so heedless, because if we've got away with it in this life, it doesn't mean we're going to get away within the next life. If the ACO or the CID don't get you in this life that karma police will get you in your next life. You can't get away with anything. And you know, you always get rewards is a sense of justice. That sense of justice is so important. Because when there's no sense of justice, there's no sense of fairness. There's an invitation for like the law of so called the jungle. The most powerful, the coolest, the one who gets away with it wins. And that doesn't feel right to me. That's not the sort of world I'd like to live in. I like to live in a world of fair of moral cause and effect. where good people, kind people generous people eventually get rewarded with happiness, where the call selfish, hurtful people will not get punished, but have to learn from their mistakes, the stupidity, so they'd never do that ever again. Sort of karma and rebirth. If you don't believe what I've said, in this evening's talk, haha, you certainly will in your next life when you die and come back and tell me, yes. And I'll say, I told you so. So thanks a lot for listening to this evening's talk on Reba reverse. Okay, very good show. I used to say if you're gonna do it, give it everything you've got if you get a clap, clap if you don't get a clap, okay, very good. Very good. If you get a boo, boo. Okay, that's enough for this evening. Any questions on receiving stop? Question Time for the talk. Okay, very good. Because you know, the other thing was, it would have said about reason why people are going to be repurposed to the next life. Correct. Don't ask questions that this one is stupid in your next life. When an enlightened person dies, when a person knows all the lessons in school, they have to go back to school again. No, you graduate. So you're free from having to go to school again. You're free from nappies, you're free. From all this all day sickness and death. Isn't that nice? I reckon. Where does the mind go? It goes back to where it came from. That's why that this last couple of weeks ago, I went to Walleston college to teach some meditation there. The last time I went there before there was an inauguration or inauguration of a second row. She was polities and our friend of mine now look terrified. He got the same groups are terrified. We're all mates. And so apparently accorded that tradition when he became a Roshi who went out to go and say something. So I told him the story about this, this Zen man who's walking down the street in his robes. And somebody said to me, this is to me that was walking down the road and suddenly come up, say, now why didn't you go back to where you came from? matter that's very thin. That's how that story. That's what was funny. Is that's called xenophobia. Okay, I'm now going to come back in my next life, and I come back and said, Look, listen to bad jokes all my life because my back cover Yes. Okay. The point is, I answered that before when, say, human beings, animals, ghosts, heavenly beings, as many different realms. So you don't go 1 million into 2 million. So the reason why we've got so many human beings is because many animals have taken rebirth in the human realm. This we've all the animals gone. Somebody asked that sort of, you know, in heaven, in the Christian heaven do where dogs and cats go. Imagine if the cats and your nice pet mice go to the same heaven. Well, the cat see. So anyway, now that's because the animals just like other beings, that they will go from one role to another realm. Even the Greek philosopher Heraclitus recorded a saying he remembered a past life as a fish. This was two and a half, 1000 2200 years ago, something in Athens in ancient Greece, when the great Greek philosophers claimed in his writing, there used to be a fish before. So it's not a new thing, this rebirth, reincarnation thing, we get reborn from the animal world, human realm, heavenly will go through many realms. That's why we've got a lot of people in the human realm right now. Because there's been sort of it's like, houses as many vacancies. But it's not many vacancies in the animal realm. So many animals have become extinct. Or the numbers are just really, really down. And look at suddenly the dolphins this, they exert exhibit so many human characteristics, so much intelligence. Somebody what pointed out this was actually Peter Singer, the Australian philosopher is over in. I was at Princeton or somewhere. He bought his book animal rights and one of the things he was writing there, as a philosopher, not a Buddhist, he was actually saying that the distinction we make between human beings and animals can be compared. Not the same, but is comparable to the distinction white people made towards Qatar people, sort of 200 or 300 years ago, before we call it racism. He said, In a future, the way we treat animals will call speciesism As if animals don't feel pain as if animals can be exploited, that animals can be tortured, because they're not the same as us in Buddhism, and Hinduism as well, we say no, no, no. animals aren't that different. Animals also feel animals are intelligent. If you don't believe that, you ask anyone who's got a had a dog or a cat. Now the animal was so human. Many times people asked me to chart for that dog who's died? There, we're doing Buddhist service, who a cat who's very close to them. And we're very happy to do that. Because I know that that is not sort of an animal that's a being in there. So that's actually the answer to your question come from many other realms. Okay, one more question. And then we have to leave the next questions just right over there. If you want to have any other questions, you have to ask them in your next life. Yes, question over there. Notice that the question this is a long question has many parts to it, but just I can it. Deal with a couple of parts. One part, which stood out to me when you're talking about that is saying that this age is somehow especially bad, especially difficult, especially troublesome. And having studied history recently? Well, I don't really think that is true. There have been cycles in our in our world cycles of peace and cycles of wars, cycles of terror, and cycles of civilization. And this has just been just the way of our world. We just go through cycles. And it gets better, it gets worse, it gets better, it gets worse. But I say that this is just like being in a school. In a school you expect to have the school of the world out of greed, to have selfishness. but alongside that you have the beauty, the selflessness, the charity, and the heroes in the world. The Mandela's as well as the, the Saddam Hussein's. So you have both there, and you always will have that both there. It's like somebody I imagined once like this alien came down from Mars, and came to like one of our schools in WA. And he'd been here 20 years ago, and he said, nothing has changed. There's still this little children in grade one, they're still doing the same things with the plasticine. There's still the people in grade five grade six grade 12 are still doing the same lessons. But of course, he doesn't realize people have graduated through in those 20 years. They're not the same people. So the world seems to be the same. There's always wars, there's always violence. There's always love. There's always wonderful people, there's always monsters, but actually, this is people graduating through flowing through the school of life. If it was a perfect world, it would not be a school, there'd be nothing to learn. The world is like this, for us to learn. We do need to see, as it were the greed and others to see this. I'm not going to do that in my life. As a person who's just learning in this world has come into this world that did they aren't very wise or learned here. Just like a person coming into grade one or two. I can't really criticize them. They're just starting out. I can't praise the kid in year 12 Because they've been here a long time they've learnt a lot maybe it is the Saddam Hussein's or the the Adolf Hitler's maybe they just started out and they still got a lot to learn. Yeah, the Mandela's are about to graduate. That is one better than the other. Was it just the one has been learning more and is about to graduate? Definitely we're looking at it's only a suggestion. But it's a big question and it really isn't tied to it answer it fully. So that come up afterwards. As a question, I'm happy to discuss it the same with you as well. How to come up and ask a question privately then you are most welcome to. So that finishes the talk about rebirth and many other things this evening.

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